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Poster: light into ashes Date: Dec 21, 2009 8:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ken and Judy Lee on 11/8/70

I think Cliff is (silently) commenting not on the 11-8-70 AUD, but on the strangeness of this message. (The same 'review' was left for 6-24-70 too, and perhaps it will be left for 3-21-70 before long.)

Sometimes on the Archive we get the original tapers leaving reviews for their shows, which is pretty cool - Marty Weinberg has even dropped in from time to time, saying similar things about his recordings.
Now, Ken & Judy Lee are two of the most mysterious tapers, considering that their tapes are among the most famous from 1970.... At first I thought this message might be a fake, considering that one thing we know about Ken Lee was that he was a security guard who refused to let his tapes go into circulation, so one relative had to copy a few Port Chester tapes by stealth! (The full story is in the notes of some of those shows.)
But who knows, maybe he is still around, still sitting on a pile of still-playable tapes, and has changed his mind about releasing them.....

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Dec 21, 2009 11:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ken and Judy Lee on 11/8/70

Good observation - thanks LiA. See, you learn something here all the time. Did you listen to the King Kong vs Godzilla rap that went down?

These tapes are great. There's sooooo-many unique tapes still NOT in circulation. Collectors and AUD tapers should step up to the plate and circulate them here. We will help you, if you like. I will say this again to all the musicians out there. We know you guys are sitting on the vast majority of uncirculated live music Tape Collections - probably 90% of it. You cannot take them to the grave with you. At the very least, please release the really good stuff. The Lee's vibes are perhaps an opportunity for me to chime in here. PEACE

is it possible Cliff is jones-ing?

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Dec 21, 2009 7:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ken and Judy Lee on 11/8/70

This is the story of how 6/24/70 got out (not sure who wrote it or when) -

"Source Information for The Usher's Tapes Tree

"the person who is responsible for the bulk of the capitol theatre audience recordings is a fellow by the name of ken lee (not sure of his last name spelling). this is the
guy who was employed by howard stein (local ny area promoter of the time) my source is his brother in law, mark c (a long time dead head & quite a nice &
unassuming person) i owe mark a huge debt of gratitude.

ken's port chester masters were recorded on a sony cassette deck (don't have the 'model # or mic info) his positioning was generally center lodge with mic's mounted
on the rail. 3/21/70 had the mic's spaced at over 15 feet, and the recording bears out that information. 6/24/70 set#2 was mastered on a 120-minute cassette.

ken is reported to be very un-friendly and intimidating (6 foot 5 inches with a security guard attitude) he was at tompkins square park, nyc 6/67 and reported a ? hour
dancin' in the street, fwiw. he recorded many local shows (queens college, all 4 stands at port chester, Manhattan center.etc. mark says he was doing this only for
himself and never did much of anything at all with his recordings. at port chester he had howard steins permission to tape, with the footnote of never letting them out.
so...marks older sister is married to this guy & he would occasionally let mark have tapes & mark was apparently pretty free with his copies over the years. most of
what circulates from gd @ port chester originated mainly from mark's 1st gen copies, not ken's masters. as time went on their relationship deteriorated (now they are
estranged) and ken literally & figuratively shut the door on mark.

marks last score from ken's tapes was back in 1986. when ken was out, mark & an instigating friend went armed with sony tc d5m's and recorded as much from the
masters as they could get away with. ken arrived in the middle of all this and was outraged and shut it all down & proceeded to take all the copies (not all it turned
out) mark told me that at that point in time, all the tapes he witnessed were badly in need of restoration (and this was back in 1986) i am sad to relay that even though
these master still exist, there are rotting in un-kind hands it took me close to 2 years & many phone calls to hook up with mark, and then only for one day. things were
haphazard & i taped what i could given the time i had on hand.

mark had 2 separate copies of 6/24/70 late show. the older copy he received with ken's blessing in the mid '70's, this was on a xl 2, no dolby, the fresher copy was from
the incident in 1986. this was on a mx metal cassette and had a better frequency response, but there was a bad squeal & lisp on the right hand channel and proves the
deterioration of the recording. i went with the older copy that was made when the master was in better condition set list has; nfa easy wind (very powerful), me & my
uncle, dark star ikyr, then uncle johns band (which is not the encore, as they never leave the stage. the encore is an acoustic "swing low sweet chariot" it was mia, but
I WILL get it 3/21/70 has never sounded this good. it's actually quite fantastic in spots. it's the best recording i've ever heard coming out of that room 11/5/70 is a
powerful psychedelic feast. i could never sit through it before, because of the abysmal quality

i want to, and enjoy bringing pleasure to fellow music lovers. please let it be known i have zero tolerance for any suspicion, or dishonesty. criticism, on the other hand
i can handle fairly well. so give me a few days & i'll get seeds to someone who has already volunteered to handle the administration and decimation on deadlist. our
1970 caretaker, jim powell, will get cd's from me for his analysis

that's the story"

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Poster: snori Date: Dec 22, 2009 7:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ken and Judy Lee on 11/8/70

In today's 'recently reviewed' more info from Ken Lee. http://www.archive.org/details/gd_nrps70-06-24.aud.pcrp5.23062.sbeok.flacf

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Dec 22, 2009 8:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ken and Judy Lee on 11/8/70

Good stuff indeed

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Dec 22, 2009 2:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ken and Judy Lee on 11/8/70

Pour me another Cup of Coffee

For it is the Best in the Land . . .

The NRPS on this recording is great!!!!

Wooooooooooo Hoooooooooooo

Thanks Ken & Judy!!

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Dec 22, 2009 9:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ken and Judy Lee on 11/8/70

It's really nice to see Ken coming around! This review is one of my favorites - always love to hear from the tapers and people who can really describe the vibe of the shows.

How the hell did they let a guy in with explosives? This would never happen these days... sounds like a total people circus!

The tidbit about the his mustang with headphone jacks installed all around the car is awesome - sounds like he was very much a Prankster!

The impression I get from his reviews is much different than those well-known stories of him being an intimidating asshole and stingy with his tapes!

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Poster: Ken and Judy Lee Date: Dec 22, 2009 4:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ken and Judy Lee on 11/8/70

BTW, I was 6'6" not 6'5". Technically that's one inch away from officially being a giant. Now in my 7th decade, have broken my back in two places so I'm probably somewhat shorter now.

Ken Lee

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Poster: Ken and Judy Lee Date: Dec 22, 2009 4:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ken and Judy Lee on 11/8/70

It's TRUE! We're back!

When did a promise stop being just that?

Well, I guess I'm a man of my word.

I felt the technology would eventually enable identical copies with no loss and look what happened.

So I kept the masters in the vault and only sent them past a head to make ourselves a listening copy.


Now, after 30 years working on the railroad, and raising four great human beings, I'm going through the hundreds of hours we got and we're gonna set those puppies loose on the world.

Sorry about the delay, good things come to those who wait.

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Poster: SkyDawg Date: Dec 23, 2009 9:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ken and Judy Lee on 11/8/70

Hey now! If this really is you guys, I have to say that the tapes made at Port Chester NY from 1970 recorded by you folks are among my all-time favorite shows. What fantastic tapes! Thanks for recording them for the ages! I have all the Dead shows from the Capitol Theatre in 1970, as well as Janis Joplin's show, Jethro Tull and the Traffic show. These were also supposedly taped by you guys. I for one can't wait to hear them all. Great balcony recordings! All done from around the same spot I would guess?

Oh, BTW, did you happen to have recorded the 11/6/70 Grateful Dead show at Port Chester? I would hope so, and I hope that concert as recorded by you guys will also see the light of day!

This post was modified by SkyDawg on 2009-12-24 05:42:50

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Poster: Ken and Judy Lee Date: Dec 24, 2009 6:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ken and Judy Lee on 11/8/70

That Jethro Tull tape was tough, great set with Martin Barr rocking the house. At the time, Ian Anderson had taken the group to the stratosphere and beyond.

Now this is where it gets truly weird...

Don't know how THEY found out about us, but someone offered us a brand new Chrysler for a copy of that tape. I was driving a second hand Mustang that I'd painted flat black between the tailights for that cool custom look. I was gonna put woodgrain betwixt the lamps for a woody look. Kind of an East coast-West coast mashup look, but the paint won out. (lots easier). Then I went to Future motors over on Northern Blvd. and socially engineered them out of one of their chrome name badges they put on the new cars. And that was that. Got a lot of favorable comments on the Future-mobile from the oddest of places. Cops to cabbies, black, white or indifferent, everyone had something to say.

Rolled a whole lot of weird miles in the 'Stang.

Anyways, if not for love or money, I wanted the tapes to sleep in the vault, awaiting the world's ability to allow anyone and everyone to enjoy the same awesome sound that STILL gives me goosebumps. That time has come today, Sistahs and Brudders. Let's let rock and roll rear up and take the stage again. No time like the present, or so they say.

For those who still try to get out and see shows, you should check out what LiveNation and TicketMaster are cooking up, Nothing good for us, I'm afraid. BUT WE CAN STOP THEM.

Stay tuned, kids, it's only the second act.

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Poster: SkyDawg Date: Dec 25, 2009 11:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ken and Judy Lee on 11/8/70

Merry Christmas guys! May we all have a Happy New Year too!

I have just listened again to the Jethro Tull show in question, 7/29/70. It was truly an amazing show, as you recollected! The Sir Martin Barre solo you mentioned must have been on the final song, "We Used To Know".


Back in those years my show-going friends and I adopted that song as our theme song in the prospect of some future time as a song that would bind us all together.

I will always remember that song and the three times I saw Tull in 72', '73 and'75. Two of the three shows I saw back then are the best concerts I ever saw, the "Thick As A Brick" and "A Passion Play". These were among the greatest shows I ever witnessed. This song brings back great memories!
The "Thick As A Brick" tour was the best ever!


This post was modified by SkyDawg on 2009-12-26 07:52:13

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Dec 21, 2009 12:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ken and Judy Lee on 11/8/70

Wondering if Ken and Judy have any other tricks up their sleeve?

Love your avatar, by the way...

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Dec 21, 2009 8:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ken and Judy Lee on 11/8/70

Good catch LIA, I had to go back and re-read the post as well as click on the link and read the actual review before it sunk in. Certainly good news if it is true, and a fine show to give a listen to on this cold and breezy morning.

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Poster: jessandra Date: Dec 21, 2009 12:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ken and Judy Lee on 11/8/70

I found the following online at the bottom of the page here:

The Port Chester Restoration project
Capitol Theatre- Port Chester, NY
Audience recordings by Ken and Judy Lee

Ken and Judy Lee didn't think anyone would be interested in hearing their recordings...

Between the years 1970 and 1971, Ken worked security at The Capitol Theatre in Port Chester, New York, while his girlfriend Judy ran movie projections between sets. One of a few live music taping enthusiasts of the time, Ken was granted exclusive permission by club promoter Howard Stein to record the shows at the theatre for his own personal use. Judy was on hand to perform the tape flips while Ken was busy doing his job.

In 1968, the couple took Judy's brother Mark, who was nine years old to his first concert at "Cafe Wha?" in New York City. The Monkees were on tour and Jimi Hendrix was along for the ride as their opening act.

Several years later, Mark was introduced to the music of the Grateful Dead at the Nassau Coliseum on March 19th, 1973 in Uniondale, Long Island. This single event marked the beginning of a life long odyssey of musical experiences with the band that affected him most deeply. Along with his good friend, John Jay Hance, who Mark met at a Dead show in 1979, the two traveled around the United States with the band in search of the ultimate musical experience, attending over 350 shows together. The two also shared a common interest in seeing live music of a wide variety of genres, and during the 23 years that they knew each other attended more than 1000 total concerts together, until Mark's untimely death in November of 2002.

Mark knew of brother in-law Ken's recordings from the Capitol Theatre, and had a strong interest in having the shows circulated; however, being true to his word to Howard Stein, Ken kept the recordings under wraps and the tapes never saw the light of the trading domain (One noteworthy bending of this rule occurred when Ken agreed at Mark's request to circulate the late show that the Grateful Dead did on June 24th of 1970. This show is highly regarded as an all-time magical performance by the Dead during their 30 year history as a band).

It was not until John Jay, who also knew Ken Lee, and of the Port Chester tapes, ran into Ken at Mark's funeral in 2002 that the fateful discussion of having the recordings released occurred. At that time, Ken didn't think anyone would have any desire to listen to his tapes. They had been sitting up in the attic of his present home for over 20 years going through the early stages of decay.

Because such a great deal of time had elapsed since Ken made his agreement with Howard Stein, and the fact that John Jay was insisting that there was an overwhelming interest by music lovers to hear these recordings, Ken agreed to open the flood gates and the Port Chester Restoration Project began, which is ultimately a tribute to Mark Cohen's passion for live music.

By fortune and coincidence, John Jay Hance, a master at the art of recording and restoring live music himself had already developed his own method for preserving fragile, decaying audio tapes with a heating method commonly known as "baking." The process of restoring Ken's recordings presents an even greater challenge, however. The cassette shells which encase the audio tapes first have to be removed and replaced because they are too fragile to be played. This is extremely difficult, being that these cassettes were glued together during manufacturing (as opposed to the use of screws, today). The halves of the shell must be carefully removed without doing damage to the tape inside.

Once the analog tape is restored and rebuilt, it must then be then played back one time through an analog to digital converter onto a cd, which is then cleaned of hiss and other extraneous noises. Then it can be replicated and introduced to the world of music trading. For the cleanup job, John Jay enlisted the help of "Sound Forge" software guru Peter G to help make what exists from the master tapes sound just exactly perfect. Having listened to the first installment of this project, Janis Joplin and Full Tilt Boogie from August 8, 1970 several times, I can tell you that the sound is brilliant!

Keep in mind that Ken and Judy recorded nearly EVERY show at the Capitol during '70 and '71, on an estimated 300-500 cassettes (one box of cassettes is believed to be missing). While many are labeled with correct dates and the music they contain, much of what exists is still a mystery. Several gems containing long forgotten performances and musical collaborations have already surfaced. Expect some nice surprises in the years to come.

Enjoy Ken and Judy's recordings from the Capitol Theatre and appreciate the great care and quality of craftsmanship that went into their creation and is currently going into their preservation.

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Dec 21, 2009 2:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ken and Judy Lee on 11/8/70

Excellent source for me to read for the first time - thank you for posting. I see Evan Bellaff wrote that. He is correct. My own cassettes were all the actual Master tapes that I recorded on in the mid-70s. Some of them were actually sitting in my glove box in my car - over the years - during temps ranging from 20 below zero to 150 degrees in the blazing summer sun. A few of these had many hundreds of playback-passes on them. The rest mostly sat around in boxes at the many places I've moved to over the years. Most of my cassette tapes are very decent or excellent quality. They're more expensive. Some have failed housings and others have broken tapes. But, they all have serviceable housings that are screwed together.

A friend told me about the "baking" process a couple of years ago, referring to it as "steaming" if I remember correctly - particularly useful for repairing tape wrinkles - like ironing your shirts. My RFK stadium cassette tapes I used to tape June 1973 were the cheaper type available then. They did not have screws holding the cassette housings together. They were like that mentioned by Evan, glued together. I think the earlier cassettes were all the glued types. I had a whole bunch of tape damage for my RFK cassettes.

I've written on here about repairing these tapes, removing the tape reels, and putting them into surrogate cassette housings. Luckily there was another source to patch. Then I decided I needed to learn how to use Samplitude and do the remastering myself. My friend helped me get setup with that, 'for educational use'. I purchased a used Lexicon Alpha from him. Then I did the transfer through the Alpha device to my computer via USB port. I used my 35-year-old Nakamichi 550 portable cassette recorder for the playback pass. I monitored everything on pro-Sennheiser headphones, also purchased at the time for this purpose. So I didn't try to get exotic by steaming the wrinkles out of my tapes. Regardless, steaming wrinkles out of tapes, or baking them, will not repair the severely stretched tape-damaged sections.

As an aside, I do have all my original tapes - again, some of them are damaged. I'm still sitting on some other tapes, not sure if musicians approve me releasing them. I have more AUDs of GD that I taped. For these, existing sources already circulating are better than mine. On the other hand, other musicians have tapes that I recorded of them - tapes that I no longer have copies of - and I cannot get copies of them. Go figure, imagine that. Should we make one giant collection somewhere - for all the "released" tapes to be put - and make them into museum pieces? I was wondering what to do with mine...

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Dec 21, 2009 7:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ken and Judy Lee on 11/8/70

These notes were written in 2003.... I wonder if there is a complete list of Ken Lee's available tapes anywhere?

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Poster: Ken and Judy Lee Date: Dec 22, 2009 4:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ken and Judy Lee on 11/8/70

Just seek out the Capitol Theater run and subtract Tony Williams Lifetime (I think) with Jack Bruce. I was incensed with the performance and pulled the tape and shut down the deck, the only time ever.


They did suck a lot, though. Was looking forward to the night, but I couldn't stand it.

Also the entire run at Manhattan Center by the Dead.
Pink Floyd Carnegie Hall 5-2-1972
There's more, now in my 7th decade and it's been a while.
Will post more as we dig in the vault.

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Poster: TPBailey Date: Dec 13, 2011 9:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ken and Judy Lee on 11/8/70

Does anyone know how to reach Ken or Judy Lee?
The New York Times is looking to contact them ASAP for an upcoming article about the Capitol Theatre in Port Chester, NY; if you have contact info, please send to me: (tpbailey@gmail.com). Thanks!

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Dec 22, 2009 12:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ken and Judy Lee on 11/8/70

yep, I noticed that yesterday. Reconsider the 'librarian gig' scenario in this case. Unless you have a system in place for these hundreds of cassette tapes - one that you or anyone can work with - you actually need to listen to all the tapes to confirm what's really recorded on them. I've not seen a situation like the one with Ken and Judy Lee's predicament.

In my case, my tape collection wound up becoming a complete mess over the years. My early recordings on cassette tapes were labelled clearly, and many of these tapes were indexed - listing every tune. Once I started taping lots of shows and collecting from others, I was using up huge amounts of cassette tapes. It got really crazy when I was a soundman. I gave many tapes away and let many others get copies of what I had at the time. Like it or not, I also re-recorded over many of my 'other' recordings. Dozens of my tapes have labels right now that are totally incorrect. All these years later there is no way I can remember what I was doing 35 years ago. So I had to go in, repair my tapes, listen to them very carefully, and start transferring the material. I wonder if the Lee's tape collection was labelled accurately.

The listeners, collectors, and community archives want all the information and source recordings, and all the remastered filesets, to meet very high standards for trading. It's alot of work doing this. In my case, I found the attention to detail required for remastering - to get it perfect, is overwelming and mundane, and NOT very much fun. Patching, correcting problems, and editing the material starts to get painful and tricky after you've listened to it dozens of times, over and over. Charlie Miller, Chris Chappell, Kevin Tobin, and Hunter Seamons, for example, have more ability than I do, and do not get impatient when doing this work. It shows.

However, I have explained here exactly how to do everything yourself, for the cheapest money possible. I already have a good cassette playback platform - my Nak 550. The used Alpha device cost me $75. It will digitize and capture audio at 48Khz in 24-bit, if you set-up the ASIO device driver, and capture the Audio using Samplitude. The pro-headphones cost me about $125. The website hosting fee for my website is about $120 per year - that's about the cheapest and best you can find. I recommend finding a used desktop box (Dell, HP, Gateway, for example) running Win XP - costing maybe $500, including a monitor. Start over from scratch and install XP from your original installation CD. You can locate the vendor's websites for all these models, and get all the original drivers easily installed correctly. You're good-to-go.

I've also explained and demonstrated how to integrate The Archive web page hosting and item manager system with my own website hosting system. Notice that I'm also utilizing the Festivarian Forum for relevant web hosting, postings, and show-trading over at Planet Bluegrass. In addition to using Samplitude and Trader's Little Helper, I'm using Dreamweaver, Photoshop, CorelDraw, FileZilla, uTorrent, zTree, and WinAmp. I don't have a problem using s/w for educational use. I've just told you everything.

The result is, I have full management and editing control over all of my archives for very little cost. The bands and musicians will observe this. They should feel at ease knowing that I have everything of theirs in a very secure state of being. The exceptions to this are the AUD copies of my GD tapes that are in the GD collection. These are managed by GD, eTree, The Archive, Rhino, and Matt Vernon.

Lastly in my case, I only recently posted how I sneaked into certain venues and taped shows that were otherwise impossible to tape. I still have great reservations telling you who, what, and where I taped - never mind circulating all of it. Everything needs to be 'legitimate,' doesn't it? This is a whole other matter. Which brings us back to the Ken and Judy Lee predicament. It's another huge issue to manage: getting permission to circulate. Getting in touch with these people, and settling all the issues regarding events from 38 years ago is challenging.

-- quick edit to add one more thing --

I was working at a TV station in 1976 while I was doubling as a soundman on the side, in Louisville, Kentucky. I was a roommate in a housefull of musicians. We all got stoned one day and agreed to volunteer myself as EIC (engineer-in-charge), their Bluegrass Alliance band, and the TV station's equipment. We videotaped a TV music show ourselves on 2-inch 'quads'. Quads are 2-inch, quadraplex-scan, video-tape recorders, being the first type of "broadcast-quality" video tape recorders in use. This TV station only had one camera, but everything there was hi-resolution and full color. We went back and shot some isolated camera shots to add close-up shots, videotaped separately and lip-synched, that were used for tight shots during some of the solos or vocals. It was pretty hip for 1976. We were not a TV-network affiliate. It was an independent station with a small budget. The TV station is today claiming they do not have this tape. So I guess it doesn't exist. Smoke a bowl and get a laugh reading about this infamous Demonic Head incident. I deny everything.

This post was modified by dead-head_Monte on 2009-12-22 20:58:32

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Dec 22, 2009 2:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jer on Taping

inside Jer's head — this is a good place to repeat this post

Jer answers "the Taping question"

this material is pure gold

Raddison Hotel, room 1503
St. Paul, Mn.
July 10, 1981

— the "taping" question —

journalist Greg Harrington asks, "Jerry, not many bands - if any, aside from The Dead, allow people in to tape record their concerts, and it's something that The Dead have always done. And, what are your feelings along this line? It brings alot of joy to alot of people."

Jerry Garcia, "Well, my feelings are the music is for the people. You know it's like, ahh, I mean after it leaves our instruments, it's of no value to us, you know what I mean? It's like what good is it? So it might as well be taped, my feeling is. And if people enjoy taping it, and enjoy having the tapes to listen to, that's real great. I can sympathize with it, because I used to do alot of taping myself when I was in bluegrass band. I went out of my way to tape shows and I know what that's like. And since what we do is live music, I mean thats ahhh..."

Greg, "Well I think the tapes really capture the magic of the band."

Jerry, "Well that's what everybody says. That's why people tape, you know. I certainly can't ... you can't fight with that, you know. I don't understand why people would object, you know. That's the way I feel about it."

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Dec 22, 2009 2:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jer on Taping

I seem to recall there was post of a different Jerry interview from around 1973 where he was very much against taping. I seem to recall another post about tapers being hassled around that time by the crew which would be consistent with him not being thrilled with taping. So apparently Jerry was not very consistent on this and therefore there is no way to know where he would stand on the subject in today's digital format, internet trading world.

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Dec 22, 2009 4:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jer on Taping

I fully agree with you. And I agree with HF too, but he forgot to mention DTS 5.1 dolby surround sound - taking MTXs to a whole new level, and trading on DVDs. To combine what you've both just said, today's traders are "getting into this stuff." For the past several years, they have been trading 1 TB drives, or bigger, loaded with 'all of it'. This tiny little Audio sliver is but one small piece of what's trading on the Internet. It complicates the matter of archiving original live music tapes - be it AUDs or SBDs.

Some established artists are alive today, some are playing now, many have played in several bands, and some have passed away. I met many musicians. I have been a fly on the wall countless times. I never met a musician who didn't have tapes. My desire is to make sure all this live music content gets archived, and becomes undeletable - regardless of circulation and legal issues - including photos, films, and video tapes. Studio projects and commercial material are a separate matter.

The way things are setup around here on The Archive, all the artists and bands get to control everything - ALL THE TIME. That's the way it should be. The Lee's tapes are in deteriorating condition. They are also proprietary property. These tapes are the most complicated live music collection I've ever seen mentioned on The Archive. It's easy for me to cheer-lead from the sidelines.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Dec 22, 2009 4:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jer on Taping

"Some established artists are alive today, some are playing now, many have played in several bands, and some have passed away. I met many musicians. I have been a fly on the wall countless times. I never met a musician who didn't have tapes. My desire is to make sure all this live music content gets archived, and becomes undeletable - regardless of circulation and legal issues - including photos, films, and video tapes. Studio projects and commercial material are a separate matter."

I believe this is precisely the goals of the IA and why we have this place. It is also why many of us get pissed when discussions of how to circumvent the artists wishes pop up as the artists can ultimately decide not to allow such a public archive of their material.

Monte, I think you laid out a great explanation for why this is such a difficult and evolving issue. You can cheerlead all you want, but I would much rather see posts like this than rehashing of that Jerry quote which imo has become more of a chiche than something of substance. Great post.

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Poster: high flow Date: Dec 22, 2009 2:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jer on Taping

Please nudge the needle. It's skipping again.

None of the current band members or the heirs to the vault(both GD and JGB) seem to give a loaf about Jer's opinions of tapers and taping. In addition, I believe Jerome was specifically referring to audience captures of the band's concerts. Not SBD's or SBD patches or MATRIX jobs.

Every time I read Jerry's noble(and out-dated) stance on taping, my brain refuses to ignore that 10,000# pink elephant.

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